<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Of God and Man</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-13576</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-13576</guid>
		<description>One concern I have with the premise of this blog, â€œAs man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.â€ - is that it reminds me too much of this particular verse in the bible:

"How you have fallen from heaven, O Lucifer son of the dawn. You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations. You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven. I will raise my throne above the stars of God. I will sit enthroned on the mount of the assembly, on the uttermost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the mountains. I will make myself like the Most High' (Isaiah 14:12-14)."

This verse begs the question - "Was Satan trying to replace God or become a god himself" ?    If the latter, then this statement Satan makes seems becomes eerily similar to the "mission" of becoming a god.   If the former - we need to understand what "Most High" really means.  "Most High" or "El Elyon" basically means the "utmost", "uppermost" or "highest" in authority.  Quoting from http://www.biblicalhorizons.com/biblical-horizons/no-91-god-most-high/

"Used of Yahweh, [El Elyon] highlights His pre-eminence over the nations and over other gods."

In this context, it's doubtful that the statement "As God now is, man may be" truly implies that man somehow, someday, will become "El Elyon".   There can only be one "Most High".

I'm curious why is there a fascination to be a god, or why does it even matter if we become gods someday?  If man's purpose is to become a god someday, then why is there a need for a saviour?   Since man could one day be gods, and carve out their salvation themselves through good works - couldn't they just tell our saviour, "Move over, I'm next"?

Romans 8:16-17 does talk about us being heirs of God, but our inheritance is not of Godship.  This verse is taken out of context when you look up the word "inheritance", as it's used throughout the New Testament.  Our eternal inheritance is to live in God's kingdom forever, as children of God, not equals with God.

Acts 28-29 is also taken out of context.
v28 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.' 
v29 "Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stoneâ€”an image made by man's design and skill. 

Acts 17 talks about Paul reacting to the people of Athens, a city full of idols.  In verses 28 and 29, it talks about not making God in the image of man, who is simply an offspring (i.e. a creation) of God.  Offspring in the Greek is "Genos" which means "born [of]".

A creature of creation simply cannot be equal with its creator. 

Finally, in the bigger scheme of things - this notion of man becoming God is really irrelevant to who we are in terms of our relationship with God.  

In the end, the only gospel truths that really matter are:
Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 

And

Titus 3:5-7 (KJV) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One concern I have with the premise of this blog, â€œAs man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.â€ - is that it reminds me too much of this particular verse in the bible:</p>
<p>&#8220;How you have fallen from heaven, O Lucifer son of the dawn. You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations. You said in your heart, &#8216;I will ascend to heaven. I will raise my throne above the stars of God. I will sit enthroned on the mount of the assembly, on the uttermost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the mountains. I will make myself like the Most High&#8217; (Isaiah 14:12-14).&#8221;</p>
<p>This verse begs the question - &#8220;Was Satan trying to replace God or become a god himself&#8221; ?    If the latter, then this statement Satan makes seems becomes eerily similar to the &#8220;mission&#8221; of becoming a god.   If the former - we need to understand what &#8220;Most High&#8221; really means.  &#8220;Most High&#8221; or &#8220;El Elyon&#8221; basically means the &#8220;utmost&#8221;, &#8220;uppermost&#8221; or &#8220;highest&#8221; in authority.  Quoting from <a href="http://www.biblicalhorizons.com/biblical-horizons/no-91-god-most-high/" rel="nofollow">http://www.biblicalhorizons.com/biblical-horizons/no-91-god-most-high/</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Used of Yahweh, [El Elyon] highlights His pre-eminence over the nations and over other gods.&#8221;</p>
<p>In this context, it&#8217;s doubtful that the statement &#8220;As God now is, man may be&#8221; truly implies that man somehow, someday, will become &#8220;El Elyon&#8221;.   There can only be one &#8220;Most High&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious why is there a fascination to be a god, or why does it even matter if we become gods someday?  If man&#8217;s purpose is to become a god someday, then why is there a need for a saviour?   Since man could one day be gods, and carve out their salvation themselves through good works - couldn&#8217;t they just tell our saviour, &#8220;Move over, I&#8217;m next&#8221;?</p>
<p>Romans 8:16-17 does talk about us being heirs of God, but our inheritance is not of Godship.  This verse is taken out of context when you look up the word &#8220;inheritance&#8221;, as it&#8217;s used throughout the New Testament.  Our eternal inheritance is to live in God&#8217;s kingdom forever, as children of God, not equals with God.</p>
<p>Acts 28-29 is also taken out of context.<br />
v28 &#8216;For in him we live and move and have our being.&#8217; As some of your own poets have said, &#8216;We are his offspring.&#8217;<br />
v29 &#8220;Therefore since we are God&#8217;s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stoneâ€”an image made by man&#8217;s design and skill. </p>
<p>Acts 17 talks about Paul reacting to the people of Athens, a city full of idols.  In verses 28 and 29, it talks about not making God in the image of man, who is simply an offspring (i.e. a creation) of God.  Offspring in the Greek is &#8220;Genos&#8221; which means &#8220;born [of]&#8220;.</p>
<p>A creature of creation simply cannot be equal with its creator. </p>
<p>Finally, in the bigger scheme of things - this notion of man becoming God is really irrelevant to who we are in terms of our relationship with God.  </p>
<p>In the end, the only gospel truths that really matter are:<br />
Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. </p>
<p>And</p>
<p>Titus 3:5-7 (KJV) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dustin</title>
		<link>http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-13572</link>
		<dc:creator>Dustin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-13572</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think we can also agree that the Jewish people have the longest history with Godâ€¦ as they were the chosen people.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I think that's a false assumption that we all agree on this point.
&lt;blockquote&gt;If becoming a God was the truth, it would be a major part of Jewish culture / teachings. It is not. Case closed&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Case closed? Hardly. So you're saying for anything to be true, it has to be a major part of Jewish culture? Strange logic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think we can also agree that the Jewish people have the longest history with Godâ€¦ as they were the chosen people.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think that&#8217;s a false assumption that we all agree on this point.</p>
<blockquote><p>If becoming a God was the truth, it would be a major part of Jewish culture / teachings. It is not. Case closed</p></blockquote>
<p>Case closed? Hardly. So you&#8217;re saying for anything to be true, it has to be a major part of Jewish culture? Strange logic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-13570</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-13570</guid>
		<description>I think we can all agree that Jesus was a Jew. I think we can also agree that the Jewish people have the longest history with God... as they were the chosen people.

Show me 1 Jew that beleives they will become a God one day. Show me 1 Jew that would not respond to such a blasphemous claim in a very negative way.

The Jewish people are rooted well in the traditions and teachings of God to this day. The major difference between Jews and Christians is the belief in Jesus Christ as being their Savior.

If becoming a God was the truth, it would be a major part of Jewish culture / teachings. It is not. Case closed... please do not tell me that for 6,000 years, the Jewish people got it wrong... that God got it wrong, and now you are here to correct everything.

Teaching that you could become a God goes back to the first trick from Satan in the garden of Eden... which was that you would become "like God"... not a God... perhaps if the serpant would have said you would become a God, then everything would be ok and history would be different.

I beleive that Satan is up to his old tricks again with all the double speak and false teachings under the Mormon church... too bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we can all agree that Jesus was a Jew. I think we can also agree that the Jewish people have the longest history with God&#8230; as they were the chosen people.</p>
<p>Show me 1 Jew that beleives they will become a God one day. Show me 1 Jew that would not respond to such a blasphemous claim in a very negative way.</p>
<p>The Jewish people are rooted well in the traditions and teachings of God to this day. The major difference between Jews and Christians is the belief in Jesus Christ as being their Savior.</p>
<p>If becoming a God was the truth, it would be a major part of Jewish culture / teachings. It is not. Case closed&#8230; please do not tell me that for 6,000 years, the Jewish people got it wrong&#8230; that God got it wrong, and now you are here to correct everything.</p>
<p>Teaching that you could become a God goes back to the first trick from Satan in the garden of Eden&#8230; which was that you would become &#8220;like God&#8221;&#8230; not a God&#8230; perhaps if the serpant would have said you would become a God, then everything would be ok and history would be different.</p>
<p>I beleive that Satan is up to his old tricks again with all the double speak and false teachings under the Mormon church&#8230; too bad.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-2605</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 02:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-2605</guid>
		<description>I am Mormon.  And grew up with almost all protestant friends.  I have been to almost every protestant church and been to the catholic church a few times.  There is one Church that tells you to go to God about these issues.  It is the Mormon Church.  Ask God with a sincere heart, with real intent wanting to know the truth.  " Be still in your hearts and Minds"  Ask and ye shall recieve.  This is what I did about all the issues that ministers from other churches gave me.  When I would take these issues to my mormon church leaders.  They simply would say " ASK GOD"  PRAY ABOUT IT"   When I did, the truth was manifested to me by the power of the Holy Ghost.  I promise if you do the same the Holy Ghost will tell you the same, if your sincere and not afraid to hear.  By the way hear means understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am Mormon.  And grew up with almost all protestant friends.  I have been to almost every protestant church and been to the catholic church a few times.  There is one Church that tells you to go to God about these issues.  It is the Mormon Church.  Ask God with a sincere heart, with real intent wanting to know the truth.  &#8221; Be still in your hearts and Minds&#8221;  Ask and ye shall recieve.  This is what I did about all the issues that ministers from other churches gave me.  When I would take these issues to my mormon church leaders.  They simply would say &#8221; ASK GOD&#8221;  PRAY ABOUT IT&#8221;   When I did, the truth was manifested to me by the power of the Holy Ghost.  I promise if you do the same the Holy Ghost will tell you the same, if your sincere and not afraid to hear.  By the way hear means understand.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dustin</title>
		<link>http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-1517</link>
		<dc:creator>Dustin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 18:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-1517</guid>
		<description>One other good article: http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&#038;id=474</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other good article: <a href="http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&#038;id=474" rel="nofollow">http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&#038;id=474</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dustin</title>
		<link>http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-1516</link>
		<dc:creator>Dustin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 18:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-1516</guid>
		<description>If you search for either of those scripture references on the interent you will find thousands of links to anti-mormon sites.

Below are a few links that I feel explain these passages well:
http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&#038;id=310 (best)
http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&#038;id=379
http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&#038;id=339

Concerning Isaiah 43:10
&lt;blockquote&gt;
There are three rather glaring things about this passage. First that the Lord is talking about Gods being "formed." Idols, which are false gods, are "formed," or made by hand. The Lord is clearly saying that no God is ever "formed," either before him or after him, and yet, idols get formed all the time. Clearly idols, being formed, are not Gods.

Second, and following from this, we can understand that when the Lord speaks of Gods, he does not mean idols; for these are not Gods. If we find other instances in which the Lord speaks of Gods but does not clearly signal that they are false gods, or idols, then he is probably talking about something else.

Third, we have to get a handle on what is meant by "before me" and "after me." One point on which you and I agree is that the Lord has always existed and always will. Thus nothing happened before him, because he always was, and nothing will happen after him, because there is no after with regard to him. Thus if there were to be other Gods, this passage tells us that they would neither be his predecessors nor his successors; they would have to be his "contemporaries."

This, therefore most assuredly does not cancel out eternal progression, since, come the day that you enter into your exaltation, the Lord will still be thereâ€”he will not come to an end so that you can come "after" him. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you search for either of those scripture references on the interent you will find thousands of links to anti-mormon sites.</p>
<p>Below are a few links that I feel explain these passages well:<br />
<a href="http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&#038;id=310" rel="nofollow">http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&#038;id=310</a> (best)<br />
<a href="http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&#038;id=379" rel="nofollow">http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&#038;id=379</a><br />
<a href="http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&#038;id=339" rel="nofollow">http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&#038;id=339</a></p>
<p>Concerning Isaiah 43:10</p>
<blockquote><p>
There are three rather glaring things about this passage. First that the Lord is talking about Gods being &#8220;formed.&#8221; Idols, which are false gods, are &#8220;formed,&#8221; or made by hand. The Lord is clearly saying that no God is ever &#8220;formed,&#8221; either before him or after him, and yet, idols get formed all the time. Clearly idols, being formed, are not Gods.</p>
<p>Second, and following from this, we can understand that when the Lord speaks of Gods, he does not mean idols; for these are not Gods. If we find other instances in which the Lord speaks of Gods but does not clearly signal that they are false gods, or idols, then he is probably talking about something else.</p>
<p>Third, we have to get a handle on what is meant by &#8220;before me&#8221; and &#8220;after me.&#8221; One point on which you and I agree is that the Lord has always existed and always will. Thus nothing happened before him, because he always was, and nothing will happen after him, because there is no after with regard to him. Thus if there were to be other Gods, this passage tells us that they would neither be his predecessors nor his successors; they would have to be his &#8220;contemporaries.&#8221;</p>
<p>This, therefore most assuredly does not cancel out eternal progression, since, come the day that you enter into your exaltation, the Lord will still be thereâ€”he will not come to an end so that you can come &#8220;after&#8221; him.
</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-1515</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 17:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-1515</guid>
		<description>1 Corinthians 8:4 (King James Version)

 4As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1 Corinthians 8:4 (King James Version)</p>
<p> 4As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-1514</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 17:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-1514</guid>
		<description>Isaiah 43:10 (King James Version)

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isaiah 43:10 (King James Version)</p>
<p>Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-1280</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-1280</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the great post, Dustin.
I would like to add two of may favorite biblical verses about this subject.

This verse speaks of how we are truly God's children and can one day become like him and inherit all that he has (we are his heirs).

Romans 8:16-17
  16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
  17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

This next verse talks about how we are the literal offspring of God. What the process is of our spiritual or mortal creation I do not know, but I believe that you could say we are of the same "species" as God, our Father.

Acts 17: 28-29
  28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
  29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the great post, Dustin.<br />
I would like to add two of may favorite biblical verses about this subject.</p>
<p>This verse speaks of how we are truly God&#8217;s children and can one day become like him and inherit all that he has (we are his heirs).</p>
<p>Romans 8:16-17<br />
  16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:<br />
  17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.</p>
<p>This next verse talks about how we are the literal offspring of God. What the process is of our spiritual or mortal creation I do not know, but I believe that you could say we are of the same &#8220;species&#8221; as God, our Father.</p>
<p>Acts 17: 28-29<br />
  28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.<br />
  29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man&#8217;s device.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-1211</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.latterdayblog.com/of-god-and-man.html#comment-1211</guid>
		<description>Christian perspective (and to clarify a misunderstanding from orignal post):
I wouldn't say that we are not God's "children"... but that we are not God's "offspring"... we are God's Creation.

Christians believe that God was first (self-existant) and through him all things are created... not shaped from what is already there.

We are God's creation... not "offspring" from some sort of "spiritual sex" of some sort... to imply such a thing would mean that this mechanism for creating offspring was designed by a higher being than God for God to do... but instead God is the "Creator" independent of anything but God himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christian perspective (and to clarify a misunderstanding from orignal post):<br />
I wouldn&#8217;t say that we are not God&#8217;s &#8220;children&#8221;&#8230; but that we are not God&#8217;s &#8220;offspring&#8221;&#8230; we are God&#8217;s Creation.</p>
<p>Christians believe that God was first (self-existant) and through him all things are created&#8230; not shaped from what is already there.</p>
<p>We are God&#8217;s creation&#8230; not &#8220;offspring&#8221; from some sort of &#8220;spiritual sex&#8221; of some sort&#8230; to imply such a thing would mean that this mechanism for creating offspring was designed by a higher being than God for God to do&#8230; but instead God is the &#8220;Creator&#8221; independent of anything but God himself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
